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Post by ruukah on Jul 18, 2007 12:42:11 GMT -5
(Continued from the Welcome thread) The main reason I want to homeschool my kids is because evolution is taught in public schools. I can't afford to send them to a Christian school, and even if I did I've had some bad experiences with private schools so I'd be a little uncomfortable with it. (That seems to be where all the "bad" kids end up when they get kicked out of the public schools, lol.) Another reason I want to keep them out of the public school is because I want to make sure they're not hanging with the wrong crowd. When I was in public school I got a crush on a guy who really wasn't good for me.. It almost ruined my life. It's natural for young girls to get crushes and want to date guys. But I want them to choose guys from church, not school. lol.
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Post by sunfeather on Jul 18, 2007 13:15:52 GMT -5
Oh, my, that is a very good point. I remember that my mother homeschooled me until second grade (And a lot of what she taught me was to stand up for my religion) and when I started going to public school (around 6th grade) I had a teacher that told us that God created the world in seven days, but nobody ever said seven days on earth, and that it could more than possibly be seven days on mars. Ok, get this, all of my class mates were very convinced, but I stood up (And you are going to laugh) I said "I would think that God, being the creater of heaven and earth, Lord of man and beast, could talk faster than THAT!" Omg, good days, so yes, teaching your children to stand up for their religion is a big up to homeschooling.
Of course, some more pros to homeschooling is independence, or thats what my family thinks. No cheating off of other's tests (Not that I think that you're little girls would) And no one cheating off of theirs. Also, there is no one out in the hallways between classes to give students correct answers to the math test coming up later that day. Independence gets kids to think for themselves, because when they get older and are ready to go off into the world, they must realize that they're going to have to think a lot for themselves then. Well, just an oppinion. I'll think of more.
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Post by renji on Jul 18, 2007 15:49:36 GMT -5
sunfeather mentioning independence is probably one of the biggest reasons i turned out the way i did because i had homeschool during my elementary years, which is a pretty critical time for personality development. a lot of who you are comes from that age, such as experiences you have at that time and what you learn. i got into homeschool because of an issue i had with a teacher at the elementary school i went to. it wasnt a very complicated reason... i just plain didnt like him. i ended up skipping class and not doing homework for him just because of that reason (i was only what, seven years old? not the smartest age in a person's life XP). my mom got a call from the principal's office saying i had been late to class over 40 times in the year so far (and it was only October) and my mom tried to start investigating why. she found out my teacher wasnt teaching us any of our math curriculum or history (it was supposed to be state history) so she got really mad at the teacher and started forcing him to teach us math and history XD even then, he kinda slacked. then my teacher complained to my mom about how i was too "shy" and that "they have pills for that". well, that was the end for me staying at that school. she pulled me out that week and i was introduced to homeschool. also, since i was pulled out of school because of my teacher, he got fired since losing a student = losing money. at first, i naturally missed my friends from school and stuff, but i got over it since a few of them lived on my street so i could still see them anyways. missing my friends was pretty much the only bad thing, and it really wasnt all that bad, so oh well. i think the quality of education from homeschool was MUCH better than any public school i went to. there were lots of resources at the main center, such as free video rentals (my mom used those a lot lol), science projects and weekly "workshop" classes to take, such as art, writing, science and many others. that part of the setup was sorta like how college and high school are: you pick classes and then go at those times. also, field trips were GREAT in homeschool. nothing sucks more about public schools than not going anywhere but the stinkin classroom homeschool had TONS of organized field trips to all sorts of places. the only bad part about that was i never could go on all of them because there were too many . learning about things is much easier when you can see it and touch it yourself. a great thing about homeschool is you can go at your own pace with learning, unlike in public schools where it basically revolves around whatever level a majority of the class is. for example: math. in public schools, i always felt like i was being slowed down so i got bored easily. at homeschool, they started me off by giving me a math test to see what level i was actually at, and then set me on my way with that level. by the time i got to high school, i was way ahead of most students in math, so i was able to take more advanced and college-level math courses (which was GREAT for me since my degree im going for in college is a science degree). as for cons... theres a huge limiting factor: the parent teaching their kid. i think what gave me a huge boost in homeschool was because of how my mom did it. also, with the math thing, i dont think i couldve gotten as far with math if it wasnt for my mom's knowledge with math (she was a meteorology major in college specializing in storm motion, so ya, huge math background, also she minored in math). if my mom was horrible at math, there was probably no way in heck i couldve been able to do that. the parent needs to dedicate a lot of time to it as well. i have an online friend whos in homeschool but i dont think hes getting much out of it since his mom is a pretty busy person and doesnt always have the time to help him with stuff. i also know a few other people online who had homeschool as a kid, but didnt like it at all. i think it really depends on what age youre working with as well as the personality of the kid. some people just cant learn in a homeschool setting while others have a hard time learning in public school setting. for example, i have a difficult time learning from someone just talking to the class as a whole, but when i talk 1 on 1 with someone, my attention stays focused MUCH longer so i learn better that way. some people cant handle that, so homeschool would be incredibly difficult for them. some people also learn a lot better when working in a group and talking with other kids. i was never like that, i was always a loner, so homeschool was ok for me there. my younger brother, however, is a very social learner and when my mom tried homeschool with him, it didnt work out as well s it did with me. he was better off in a public school with many other kids. socially, i think i felt a negative impact when i returned to public school (my mom got a job so she couldnt homeschool me anymore at that point). all my friends i had known went to the same school as me, but since they grew up differently from me, they changed in different ways than i did, so i couldnt really hang out with them anymore. they werent my kind of people anymore. i had to pretty much start fresh with friends, but that was probably for the best since i was able to find a few people who id be much happier with anyways than my old friends would have been. i think that using a main reason for homeschool being "they teach evolution" is a lousy reason. when i was in public schools, i was only taught evolution once and that was in an advanced college science class while i was in high school, which isnt a class most students take since its for students who want to major in a science at college. if i was to pull a kid out of public schools so i could teach them in homeschool, itd be mostly based on the reason that kid has some problem learning in that environment for whatever reason. for some kids, they get homeschooled because of bullying issues, for others, like me, it just isnt the best environment for me to learn in. even now in college, i learn better when im on my own than while im in class. im just that kind of learner. my brother, however, excels in the classroom setting, so obviously, thats the better option for him. he found independent learning to be extremely difficult. well, its a motto of my life that anything is worth trying once, so maybe try homeschooling your girls for half a school year. if it doesnt work out, then you can go back to public schools again. maybe one will turn out to be a great independent learner while the other is more like my brother and needs a classroom setting. never know until you try, though.
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Post by ruukah on Jul 18, 2007 18:16:49 GMT -5
Wow, lots of good information and insight.. Thanks! Bleh.. Evolution.. I disagree with you there Toushiro, I think it's a wonderful reason to avoid the public school. I've already explained to my kids that evolution is a lie and that it's more religion than science, but I cringe at the thought of them being graded on how much they "know" about it. That's something I'm steadfast on, especially when you consider the scientific fact that what you believe about who you are plays a big role in how you behave. If you look at history, soon after evolution started being pushed in schools (in the early 1960's), SAT scores plummeted, drug use increased, teen sex and pregnancy increased, people became more violent...all at the same time. It's amazing. And it's no small wonder. If you believe you came from an animal then you're more likely to act like one. I'm going to make sure my kids know that they aren't animals, they were made in God's image and they have a higher standard to reach for. I couldn't possibly be more stubborn on this subject. Furthermore I don't want them being taught that the earth is 4.5 billion years old when in fact it's only about 6,000 years old. The public education system is chocked full of lies in both science and history, and I can't stand it. I'll avoid it like the plague it is. Video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr2CP86XVuw
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Torro
New Pridelander
[M0:9]just a little;;UNWELL
Posts: 16
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Post by Torro on Jul 18, 2007 19:06:51 GMT -5
I'm not one to get into religious debates, so I won't. All I will say is I am not a religious person, but I am not looking to offend anyone, especially you Ruukah. I enjoy your story because it is enjoyable, and not for religious perposes. Although I do not agree with you one hundred percent, I will say that schools are abominal(is that how you spell it?) and I think something should be done about it!
Passing up the religion wagon, I will speak about the educational benefits. I have found that in being able to finish my school work in maybe two or three hours, as opposed to being in a harmonal lockdown for eight, I have more time to research theories, etc. Also, I have a FAR larger range of friends than I ever did in public school. Ruukah, for your benefit, I will say that there are many religious homeschoolers, and a lot of them are way cool! Plus, if your daughters are younger there are plenty of young children. Park days are really fun, and I have reently taken up a home schooling dance class.
Also, many colleges admit that homeschoolers are favorites for admitance. Some say homeschoolers even go in a different pile when the deans are looking at applications!
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Post by renji on Jul 18, 2007 19:29:43 GMT -5
If you look at history, soon after evolution started being pushed in schools (in the early 1960's), SAT scores plummeted, drug use increased, teen sex and pregnancy increased, people became more violent...all at the same time. It's amazing. And it's no small wonder. If you believe you came from an animal then you're more likely to act like one. lol, the 1960's. if anything, that was more out of coincidence than anything else. it was a rebellious era in America's history and i doubt it was all because of something as little as evolution being taught as part of the curriculum. there was also a lot of racial issues back in those days... blacks vs whites and all that. it was also during the cold war and there was a constant threat of nuclear attack from the Soviet Union. theres also the factor of an increased impact from the media on people when network television became available at that time. it was a really stressful time period so its no surprise to me that people would behave that way at that time. heck, my mom grew up in that era and whenever she talks about it, i always feel that it was a really creepy time. the end of civilization due to nuclear war was a very real thought. my grandpa even had plans to go down to a bar after loading nuclear bombs onto an aircraft because nothing else was going to matter anymore. none of that was related to evolution being taught. if anything, it was barely an afterthought. lol, i believe humans are animals why wouldnt we be animals? we breathe air like animals. we need food like animals. we need water like animals. well, theres my proof i act like an animal. we are made of the same molecular compounds as animals. we have bones, skin, hair, eyes, muscles, a brain, a heart... all of which other mammals have as well, so thats how we are like animals physically. hmm... logic says we must be related somehow ;D. ah, the 6000 year old earth thing that really doesnt make any sense from a mathematical standpoint. math is a beautiful thing as it can explain anything you want it to if you use it right. as a geology-crazed individual, i know how the rocks can tell us of the history of this planet. rocks will lie on the ground but they certainly dont lie to us with their stories. the best dating method is potassium-argon dating. its the most accurate form of dating using half-lives of elements and decay rates that leads to figuring out how old a volcanic rock is. a very handy a tool ^^ and using it, humans have been able to figure out how old the earth is (around 4.5 billion years). ive seen the argument before from Christians that "science is always changing" and heck, i agree. theories and stuff like that within science are always changing, but what people forget is that math never changes. its always a constant throughout the universe and it doesnt lie. another way of seeing the earth is most definitely older than 6000 years is by using genetics. although i am not as fine-tuned with genetics as other things, math can be used to determine how many generations back two people would share a common ancestor using DNA in our mitochondria. using this cellular information, a lot can be determined, for example, the human population bottleneck 74,000 years ago. all humans alive today are descendants of the 10,000 individuals who survived a major catastrophic extinction event! pretty cool, huh? ;D archaeologically, there are many civilizations and manmade structures over 6000 years old, for example, the Egyptian sphinx. the way its eroded can only be caused from a rainy, wet climate, a climate that had not been experienced in that part of the world in 10,000 years. using ice core data and stratigraphy, we can determine a lot about the past climate of a region and the planet as a whole. oh well, ive seen your posts on Lilymud so i know youre not gonna back down from this no matter what, so im not gonna fight you too hard on it cause really, its your life and your choice about what you want to believe in. you can teach your kids whatever you want to teach them. doesnt harm me at all, so ok, go for it! you can teach your kids that Barney the purple dinosaur created the universe on a hockey puck using silly putty if you wanted and i probably still wouldnt care lol. just dont force them into mindlessly believing it. make them think and question it, then allow them to decide what they want to believe and what they dont want to believe. that leads me to a more on-topic thing about public schools. teachers are demanding and commanding people who always think theyre the absolute right person on everything in the world. 90% of them are pretty damn arrogant who think that having a classroom of little followers is a good thing. they dont like making kids think for themselves and most of the people i know who believe everything their schoolteachers said are ones who never had homeschool because they were never taught to think for themselves. to me, it probably doesnt even matter whats actually taught at school. if the kid is smart enough, theyll discover their own truths on their own regardless of what people around them say because they will be able to think for themselves. if your kids are really honestly sure that the earth is 6000 years old, then it wont matter if theyre taught evolution at school. theyll still believe in a 6000 year old earth. and dont worry about them getting marked down a grade for their beliefs. grades are just letters and in the end, my grades at school meant practically nothing. i was marked down a lot in school for my differing political beliefs from the teacher but i still made it to college anyways. theres nothing wrong with having differing views from the teacher. if anything, its probably a good thing because it forces the student to stand up for what they really believe in. if a kid is never exposed to people of the opposing viewpoint, theyll never learn how to defend their viewpoint from the other side because theyll never know what that other viewpoint actually is.
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Post by ruukah on Jul 18, 2007 19:35:43 GMT -5
Toushiroooo... Do you really want to dive into a lengthy debate with me about evolution and the age of the earth? I'm tired of wiping the floor with man's fairytales, but I could jump back in the ring if pushed.
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Post by renji on Jul 18, 2007 19:38:15 GMT -5
a response like that means you didnt read the whole thing >_> i honestly dont care if you believe the earth is an unrealistically young age. my main point is in my last paragraph since its education-related and thats the topic of this thread.
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Post by ruukah on Jul 18, 2007 22:04:33 GMT -5
Aw no I read the whole post.. I'm just responding to - "logic says we must be related somehow" "ah, the 6000 year old earth thing that really doesnt make any sense from a mathematical standpoint." "humans have been able to figure out how old the earth is (around 4.5 billion years)" "another way of seeing the earth is most definitely older than 6000 years is by using genetics" - Because now I'm inclined to make statements of my own, and I have very little willpower in such situations. XD 1. It is completely illogical to believe in the evolutionists' theory of the origin of the universe - "in the beginning there was nothing, then one day nothing exploded and that's how everything came to be". That's a faith, not a science. Furthermore to be an evolutionist you have to believe that the very laws of the universe came from nothing as well, and that while everything else "evolves" these laws mysteriously stay the same. 2. The sun uses 5 million tons of hydrogen every second. If the universe is as old as evolutionists claim, the sun would have been big enough to swallow the earth only a few million years ago. 3. Before the moon landing scientists speculated that there was a large amount of dust on the surface of the moon, because they thought it had been collecting dust for millions or billions of years. They were afraid the space craft would sink into miles of dust so they put wide pads on the bottom of it to keep it surfaced. When they landed they discovered there was actually very little dust on the moon. They planted down collection plates to see if the moon was collecting dust at all. Turns out it was. Doing simple math they found the rate of accumulation and concluded that it had only been collecting dust for about 6,000 years. 4. The moon is moving away from the earth at a consistent rate. That means that in the past the moon was closer. In fact, science shows that the moon couldn't have been moving away from the earth for more than a few thousand years without catastrophic effects - Since the moon controls our tides, more than a few thousand years ago it would have been close enough to flood the earth about 4 times per day. Yikes. 5. Also the rate at which the magnetic field of the earth is decaying limits the earth to far less than billions of years. 6. Topsoil formation rates also indicate only a few thousand years of formation. 7. If the universe were billions of years old there would be more known supernovas, since it's a scientific fact that every 30 years a star dies and becomes one. Right now there are only 300 known supernovas, a relatively small number. 8. Science shows that the human body is actually losing information and becoming worse, not gaining information and becoming better as evolution claims. When you take a picture to a copy machine and make a copy, then copy the copy, and copy the copy of the copy, etc, eventually the picture will fade away to nothing. The same is true with anything else, including human beings. We are a copy of our parents, who are a copy of our grandparents, who are a copy of our great grandparents and so on. Our bodies can only be composed of the genes that are already present in our parents - We never accumulate anything new. Therefore, the evolution of one type of creature into another is impossible. No matter how many times you breed apes together (or frogs, or lizards if you swing that way), you will never end up with a human, even over so called "billions of years". It's scientifically impossible. And so on, and so forth. In my opinion, evolutionists' biggest problem is that they don't take the Flood of Noah into consideration. It certainly did happen, about 4,000 years ago to be specific - It's recorded in the histories of many civilizations (there are 300 "legends" to be exact), plus science shows that the Grand Canyon and other formations previously thought to have taken millions of years to form were actually formed very quickly (within weeks), as the flood waters were receding. Not to mention the oldest tree is about 4,000 years old, the oldest reef is about 4,000 years old, the oldest desert is about 4,000 years old, the oldest stalactites and flowstone formations are about 4,000 years old, and 4,000 years ago the ocean wasn't salty. All of this and more indicates a global flood 4,000 years ago in which all but 8 people and a set number of animals were destroyed (The current population of earth is about 6 billion souls, and it could easily be generated from eight people - that survived the Flood - in less than 4,000 years). Do you have any idea what that much water pressure on the earth would do? One thing it would do is create lots of fossils very quickly. The sediments would cover them and the water current would move them around. Another thing it would do is create pockets of oil in the earth, which is nothing more than the smushed remains of once-living organisms. (Large dinosaurs probably would have accounted for a lot of that oil.) This is what evolutionists are finding, but because they don't want to believe in God they invent their own story and pray to Darwin that it's true. They've even gone so far as to sand down the jaw bones of apes and attach them to human skulls to try to make us believe their religion of evolution. Hitler once said that if you tell a lie long enough people will believe it. Evolution is proof of that. And of course science is always changing.. Or at least flawed science is, as other information comes to light. The evolution theory of today will be tomorrow's flat earth theory. And by the way, the Bible taught that the earth is round and suspended in space during a time when science thought it was flat and carried on the backs of turtles. The Bible also described the jet stream, ocean currents, and mountainous terrain of the ocean floor. It's nice to see that science finally caught up in those areas. (Wow, and I did all that without even touching the fact that our dating methods are flawed enough to put a freshly killed seal at thousands of years old!) Told you I have no willpower, lol.
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Post by renji on Jul 19, 2007 1:17:41 GMT -5
i have responses to all those things in support of an old earth, but i dont have much of a reason to type it all out. you already said youre stubborn about it so obviously, nothing i say will change your mind about it, so i dont have any reason to bother trying. your life so you can believe whatever the heck you want. i couldnt care less. Hitler once said that if you tell a lie long enough people will believe it. this is totally true and it just has to make you sit and think about everything in this world and has also been used as a basis in many social commentaries, including one im working on relating to religion. perhaps everything we as humans know is one huge lie. maybe we are living in a virtual world like in the Matrix. maybe we are all part of one massive government experiment. its impossible to tell, really. if theres a lawmaker or an authority, its natural to always think that authority is correct. take Kim Jung-Il, for example. he has his people trained to worship him and love him eternally. its quite amazing, especially how the people treat him like a God. they are probably more loyal to him than most Christians are to God. its so eerie and creepy... its great. i see organized religion much the same as i see Hitler and Kim Jung-Il and others. its a commanding all-knowing force and the followers will obey unquestioningly. even while talking to a few friends of mine who are Christian and will sometimes talk about God... i get a little creeped out because of how loyal they are to one specific force and i even have moments where i feel as if God is a corrupt being, depending on whos describing him. Christians dont really know if God and the Bible is a big lie. they have no reason to think its lie, but its entirely possible. theyre told over and over about God and Jesus and all that, so of course they believe. one of the scariest things to me is to be completely controlled and not even know it. i have a friend, a nice guy and everything, but his dedication to God and his religion scares the crap out of me. its so unquestioning, as if theres no doubt in his mind that what hes doing is right all because the Bible says so, the preachers say so, the church says so, etc etc. ive even gotten mad at him before because hes given up his soul to someone/something without question. unquestioning loyalty and belief can become a dangerous situation. even look at Kim Jung-Il and his people. its just downright disturbing. its really up to you what you want to believe in. i wouldnt care if you thought the earth was flat, as long as you have looked at all the possible theories and evidence about what shape the earth is and come to that conclusion for yourself. people should believe what they want to believe and its fully their right to believe in it. i just am really against mindless and unquestioning forced beliefs, for example, you forcing your kids to think evolution is hogwash. itd be much better if they were exposed to all the possibilities and then choose for themselves what they want to believe in. God gave us a free will, after all, so let your kids exercise that ability more. in the end, it probably wont even matter if they believed in creationism, evolution or even if we were all produced by extra terrestrial life. let your kids choose a path for themselves. theyll be happier that way.
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Post by Namazzi on Jul 19, 2007 1:37:01 GMT -5
lol. This thread has become a debate. XD
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Post by renji on Jul 19, 2007 3:43:19 GMT -5
lol, it has XD
random question Namazzi: whats the code to make words into links like you have in your sig?
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Post by Namazzi on Jul 19, 2007 4:52:50 GMT -5
[url=URL]TEXT[/url] Just change the 'URL' to the url you want linked to, and change 'TEXT' with what you want it to say.
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Post by renji on Jul 19, 2007 5:32:44 GMT -5
awesome, thanks!
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Torro
New Pridelander
[M0:9]just a little;;UNWELL
Posts: 16
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Post by Torro on Jul 19, 2007 10:23:01 GMT -5
Because this seems to be an evolution debate and not one on homeschooling, I'm not going to get into it. This is retarded. She can think what she wants, as can you Toushiro. A debate like this will influence neither.
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