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Post by renji on Jul 16, 2007 3:24:56 GMT -5
do you enjoy having a good debate-style discussion every now and then? if so, what topics do you like?
i ask because im getting kinda antsy for a good debate and all the forums im on are currently on topics i dont have much of a stance on so im not finding them terribly interesting >.< ((meaning abortion and the death penalty lol. im not into moral debates... at all))
i have been known to have strong stances on the following topics: global warming <---my big one education <---mostly just my local systems since thats what i know best the logging industry "dangerous" breeds of dogs property rights <---cause politically, i match best to the Libertarian Party the media most environmental issues
i do not have much of a stance on things like: the Iraq War, abortion, the death penalty and gay rights so dont expect much of a discussion from me on those >.< mostly because 1. i just havent decided yet and/or 2. i am not knowledgeable enough with them to come to a decision.
so ya, what kinds of "issues" do you like to have debates/discussions on?
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Post by ruukah on Jul 16, 2007 11:45:08 GMT -5
Cool. You probably won't get a good debate out of me though.. My big ones are: 1) Religion <--mostly Islam vs. Christianity and Creation vs. Evolution 2) Gay marriage 3) Abortion I actually haven't touched the topic of abortion in a long time, but my husband and I are planning to open a maternity home somewhere down the line and hopefully it will help out a lot of expecting teens & unweds in our area. (I spent a whole summer in a maternity home once and it did me a world of good.) On gay marriage I take the traditional stand. I wouldn't be as opposed to homosexuals having their own separate type of union, but because I believe marriage belongs to God and he set the standard, I can't go along with the idea that gay couples are able to get married. Even if the government recognizes it, it's just not marriage by Biblical definition. On Islam vs. Christianity I am of course pro-Christianity. This is a unique debate because, whether you're a Christian or a Muslim, you generally believe that one religion is God's and the other is Satan's. So it's all about characterizing God and Satan and showing which religion fits which. On Creation vs. Evolution, I'm a young-earth Creationist. I believe that Yahweh (God) created everything including space and time during a literal 6-day period and that the earth is only about 6,000 years old today. I also believe there is more scientific evidence for the Bible's account of creation than there is for any theory man has invented.
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Post by renji on Jul 16, 2007 13:47:05 GMT -5
Cool. You probably won't get a good debate out of me though.. My big ones are: 1) Religion <--mostly Islam vs. Christianity and Creation vs. Evolution 2) Gay marriage 3) Abortion lol ok. im not much of a religion debater since i dont have much of a religious background XP and even though i have lots of Christians in my family, theyre also evolutionists, too. i never understood why there was so much variation among Christian beliefs. i did some research on that for like a day and found like over 100 denominations of Christianity all with very slight differences from each other. they all believe in God and read the Bible but the interpretations are all somewhat different. mostly, it just seemed to vary by how literally they took it. i know three people who interpret it pretty differently. theres you, Ruukah, with the most literal account. then my friend who believes in a 4.5 billion year earth but not evolution. then my mom takes the Bible least literally and believes in a 4.5 billion year earth and evolution what a party that would be if you could all meet up lol. you guys all read the Bible yet came up with different ideas about the same thing. thats probably the most interesting part to me: how so many different interpretations come from the same book. gay marriage for me seems like a personal issue. i guess my attitude is "your life, do what you want as long as it doesnt hurt me". i really dont care what people do in their love life XP abortion is worse cause i have no idea what is "right" or whatever lol. moral issues confuse me D: its hard to have a stance on something that has never really made an impact on my life. i dont actually believe any religion is "Satan's religion" and i think thats a harsh thing to say. its when people say things like that where its no real wonder why theres hostility between various religions :/ cant we just all get along? XP
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Post by ruukah on Jul 16, 2007 14:44:12 GMT -5
I've wondered for a long time why there are so many divides in Christianity, so many denominations.. And I believe the answer is simple and Biblical - Christians are human. Humans are fallible and God is not. What matters most is that all denominations accept God's plan of salvation, and I'm pretty sure all the major ones do. As for Islam.. Well first of all, if you don't believe any religion is Satan's religion then what about Satanism? lol. They might be angry with you for saying that. The fact of the matter is this: If you're a Christian and you believe what the Bible says, then you believe that Satan is real and that his only goal is to deceive and lead people away from their only hope of salvation - Christ. Therefore any religion that is not Christ-centered is deceptive and has its beginning and end with Satan. If you're a Muslim your belief is similar, except that you believe Satan's goal is to lead people away from "Allah", whether by having them worship Christ or Yahweh or what have you. Therefore any religion that is not Allah-centered is deceptive and has its beginning and end with Satan. Both sides see the other as being Satanic. That's just the way it is. Here's a blog I wrote on the subject if anyone's interested: blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=62426316&blogID=277109574
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Post by renji on Jul 17, 2007 5:18:21 GMT -5
I've wondered for a long time why there are so many divides in Christianity, so many denominations.. And I believe the answer is simple and Biblical - Christians are human. Humans are fallible and God is not. What matters most is that all denominations accept God's plan of salvation, and I'm pretty sure all the major ones do. salvation meaning the whole armageddon and the second coming of Christ thing, right? like he comes down to Earth to lead the people and save them... lol, im so rusty on this stuff XD thats what my friend referred to as "salvation" was when Christ came to lead 1000 years of peace or something like that. blah, my memory fails me D:
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Post by ruukah on Jul 17, 2007 12:05:31 GMT -5
Yeah that's part of it, that's the final scene. But it's really all about what he did for us 2,000 years ago.
I guess you could say it started when God gave us free will. We were created to have a relationship with him, to love and be loved by him. But instead of pre-programming us to love him he gave us the choice, because forced love wouldn't be genuine. So it wasn't long before the world chose to turn away from God and we started going our own way. (That's what we call sin.) Once it began there was no going back. God's perfect creation is now corrupt. That's why we have death, suffering, war, disease, people shooting up their schools, and for some less extreme examples, liars, selfishness, and perversion. We're all born into it and none of us can help but be tainted by it. We've all made mistakes, we've all had a slip of the tongue here and there, a little white lie, or what have you. We've all chosen not to love God. But through it all he remembers why he created us and he continues to loves us unconditionally. The thing is, along with being loving, he's also perfectly just. By nature he can't excuse or overlook the wrong things we do, no matter how sorry we are or how good we try to be. Our past stays with us, and because God is just, the wrong must be punished. So imagine you're standing before a judge because you've committed some crime. The judge gives the sentence.. You'll have to pay $10,000, but it's more than you can afford so you'll have to go to prison. If you ask the judge for forgiveness do you think he'll let you off with a warning? Do you think he'll let you go if you can convince him that over all you're a good and kind-hearted person? Of course not.. At least, not if he's a good judge. A good judge would require that the fine be paid. That's justice. Suddenly a stranger comes into the courtroom and talks to the judge on your behalf, offering to pay the $10,000 fine for you. He asks that you be released. The judge agrees, if you choose to accept the stranger's offer. Now the ball is in your court.. Will you accept it or reject it? That's exactly what Jesus Christ (Yeshua) did for you and me 2,000 years ago. He was the only perfect person to ever walk the earth, because he was and is the Son of God...God himself made human. Because he never sinned he had no fine to pay, but he paid ours by his brutal death and resurrection (resembling the Old Testament animal sacrifices for atonement of sin - that's why he's sometimes referred to as "the Lamb"...he was the last and final sacrifice, and death couldn't hold him because he was uncorrupt). Now we can ask God's forgiveness and receive it, not because he chooses to ignore our sin but because Christ already took the punishment on himself. If we accept this and turn to God, away from sin, that's salvation. The Second Coming your friend spoke of will happen right before the final judgment, when Christ will do away with the world's corruption once and for all. Anyone who chose to reject God will spend eternity apart from him in hell (because hell by definition is a place without God.. God is everything good, he is everything loving.. So in hell there will be nothing good or loving, it will be just the opposite.) And everyone who chose to love God will spend eternity with him. So basically we choose our fate, and God said in the Bible "it's not my will that any should perish". He desperately wants us all to do what we were made to do, to love him and delight in him, but he won't force anyone to love him...won't force anyone to go to heaven if they don't want to. Because like I said in the beginning, forced love isn't genuine.
*whew* Well, that's the nutshell version believe it or not. ;D That's what Christianity is all about.
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Post by Namazzi on Jul 18, 2007 5:03:19 GMT -5
I'm not much of a debater myself. lol. I will pop in from time to time, state what I feel about it, and then leave, not to stay and debate it. XP As for religion, I usually don't even go there. Some of the stuff people can say in those is so far-fetched. XP I'm Gnostic Christian (which differs significantly from today's Christianity). (you can read about it [here] if your that interested. Like I said before, I'm not much of a debater. lol) All I have to say is: Why would an 'all loving' god, condemn people to 'hell' to be tortured just for acting on simple human emotions, which is natural? He would not have created them if he did not want them to be used, no? And after all, condemning people to be tortured for all eternity wouldn't be 'all loving' =/ To me, that would be like saying "I'm going to create human emotions, so that if you use them, I can condemn you to be tortured for all eternity" Just seems more cruel then loving, IMO. XP But either way, I know what I believe, and others know what they believe. I respect all religions (heck, mine even includes many parts of many others). I believe that you should believe in whatever you want to believe. As long as your learning spiritually in your own way, then thats all that matters. =)
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Post by ruukah on Jul 18, 2007 12:35:16 GMT -5
Simple - He's perfect. We're not. All have sinned and come short of his perfect standard. He can't let sin go unpunished, because if he did then he would be corrupt and he wouldn't be God. Have you heard of the Fall? Yes we were created with emotions and desires, but we've perverted them. We cast ourselves into hell by choosing to reject God. It's all our choice. (See my last post.)
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Post by renji on Jul 18, 2007 18:34:33 GMT -5
Namazzi, that site you linked to about Gnostic Christianity is pretty interesting. i actually find this part: www.novus.org/home/godfemale.cfm to be particularly interesting to me since it isnt something ive come across with Christians ive met and talked to. the idea of multiple gods/goddesses is an old one and its cool to see that concept is still alive. as for me, i dont really associate to any church or denomination of anything since ive never found one that really fits my beliefs. i actually find most religions to be complex, confusing and oftentimes contradicting within themselves >.< and im a stickler for consistency. i think my beliefs are as far from the literal interpretation as it gets, almost to the point where some may even say i dont believe in a God at all, even though i do. its a bit hard to explain... i just tried to explain it but i ended up deleting that part of the post because its probably better if i dont talk about it that much. i just follow what my spirit has been lead to believe on its own. its my honest spiritual belief and i have no reason to believe otherwise.
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Post by Namazzi on Jul 18, 2007 19:26:53 GMT -5
lol, it took me a good 20 years to figure it out for myself. I only ever picked up the books because my mom had them laying all around the house. (this was before I owned my own books XD) I wanted something to read, so I just read them. I found that most (most, not *all*) of what she said was what I had already been believing myself anyway. And it was nice to know that there is many others out there who believe the same as I. XP So now when people ask "what religion are you?" it's just easier to say "gnostic Christian" lol. I'm not the type to go to church every Sunday (actually, I haven't been to church since I was about 5-6 years old. XD) and I think thats fine. You don't have to go to a certain place to believe in what you believe. I can believe it just the same here from my own house. lol. I don't believe in hell, or the devil, or demons, or anything else like that either. And I too am a believer of the 4.5 billion year earth and evolution. I find that I have no reason to believe otherwise about that. I don't believe that two fully evolved humans can just pop up out of nowhere. XD But like I said before, if others want to believe otherwise, I'm completely fine with it and respect it. I believe that everyone should find their own spiritual beliefs, whether its Christianity, or just something they believe themselves. Thats what will let you grow spiritually anyway. I don't see how anyone could grow spiritually if they are just following along in something they don't 100% believe themselves. (if any of that made any sense at all. XD) but yeaahh.. I have no idea where I'm going with this here.... Just stating a few things I believe and don't believe. I think it's great though, when others find their own beliefs. (also.. I just realized I said the word "believe" about a billion times in this post... )
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Post by Flexico on Jul 26, 2007 14:07:21 GMT -5
I don't like internet debating because the only things I feel strongly enough about to want to defend (like science-based creation and Biblical things) I wouldn't like talking with people who disagree. (if that made sense)
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Post by ruukah on Jul 26, 2007 15:53:58 GMT -5
It does make sense Flexico.. I think that's a very wise approach. (And one that I should probably take as well, lol.)
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Post by renji on Jul 26, 2007 19:12:49 GMT -5
meh, i dont understand the idea of avoiding talking to people who disagree. in my opinion, when people always agree with me, i really honestly get bored of talking to them. it just isnt interesting. i thought it was nice at first when i moved to the Tales forum and Bleach Asylum as my main forums because all the people made a heck of a lot more sense than the TLK community, but its actually gotten quite boring because, well, i agree with them on most, if not all, things. it just gets really bland really fast when everyone agrees with each other all the time >.<
i think talking to people of a different opinion isnt just good because its more interesting, but is good because it helps you see another point of view. to avoid talking to people about something you disagree on is pretty close-minded, really.
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Post by ruukah on Jul 26, 2007 20:44:21 GMT -5
Yeah you make a good point.. I guess maybe it depends on the person and what they're comfortable with. Sometimes I get sick of disagreeing too much. =P But other times I'm itching for a good debate discussion, lol.
Edit: Sometimes I do wonder though, if intentionally seeking out a debate is really good for the issue at hand.. Because if it's a really good cause that you're "fighting" for, you may end up just driving people away from it.. I dunno.. Gotta feel out each situation I suppose.
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Post by renji on Jul 26, 2007 21:33:20 GMT -5
i guess to me it doesnt matter if its a good cause or not. for me, i find a lot of things uninteresting unless theres some form of conflict involved with it. like generally, i think biology is one of the most boring subjects in the world, but then heres evolution, with two definite sides, so suddenly i have an interest. if evolution was agreed upon by everyone as being true or false, i probably wouldnt be interested in it at all. maybe im just a combative and unfriendly person...? well, regardless, i typically dont hold other people's opinions on things against them. for example, political views. im an extreme far right type of person. to me, Bush is too far to the left, yet i have several people who id consider my friend who are democrats (some further to the left than others). just because we disagree on some stuff doesnt make me dislike a person. its mostly about how they disagree more than anything else... which was the big problem with Lilymud. people there will call you an idiot and many other less-than-pleasant words when you disagree with them. im not sure what their name-calling is going to achieve... but i never liked anyone there less just because of a different viewpoint. mostly, i disliked them for being uncivil about it sorta related, but today my mom asked me about what my "biggest fear" is, and i really had to think about it. i guess if i had to pick one thing, itd be a uniformed society where everyone is "equal", so yes, i think Socialism and Communism are creepy. a society where everyone agrees and "gets along" could probably fit pretty close in the same category. ya, peace is nice, but theres a huge problem i have with it... to have peace means that everyone is on the "same page" so to speak. they all agree on everything. when everyone agrees all the time, it disturbs me because i feel like theyre not thinking for themselves. when two people dont agree on something, i feel thats healthy because it means we arent headed towards a "uniform" society where everyone thinks alike. ill use an example... when i went to a scout meeting for the first time after moving to Oregon several years ago. when i lived in California, i was involved in scouts and was part of a really rowdy troop. i wanted to continue that, but what i found here was really creepy at the meeting, i swear that every girl there looked alike and sounded alike, but they werent even related. they were also overly happy and when the leader asked what people would want to do for fun, every suggestion that came out, these girls would say "thats a great idea!!" and stuff. it creeped me out so bad, i never went to scouts again. i couldnt stand seeing people who lacked individual self and such an eagerness to please. basically, when people never disagree, it creeps the hell out of me. most disturbing concept ever is social "sameness", so i guess perhaps disagreements between me and others is a sort of comfort? i can see how someone would come to that conclusion after reading this.
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