Post by renji on Jul 12, 2007 18:27:08 GMT -5
lets have a debate! should be good since most people i know have opinions on global warming thats different from my own.
a favorite subject of mine as an earth science freak is global warming. its a huge deal these days. its in the news, the movies, your politicians' agendas...
most of the common, general public believes that the earth is heading towards some giant cataclysm because we have been using too much fossil fuels and putting carbon dioxide (one of many greenhouse gases) into the atmosphere. this, in turn, has been causing the earth to heat up. as a solution, the general public believes that since we have caused this grand catastrophe, we must try to stop it!
"If I am elected president in 2008, I will stop global warming!"
-Hillary Clinton
...
global warming is not a matter of science anymore, but a matter of overblown and overexaggerated political propaganda. ever seen the film "An Inconvenient Truth"? there are so many lies and misinterpretations in it to make anyone with knowledge in climatology and other weather-related fields to make them cry.
FACT: Al Gore failed most of his science classes in college, having to retake them because he was so bad with it.
another issue i have with this global warming thing (politically) is when environmentalists push for hydrogen-powered fuel cells for cars. this right here is proof that it isnt really global warming theyre worried about >_> the exhaust that would come from hydrogen powered fuel cells is water vapor.
FACT: water vapor is THE most potent of all the greenhouse gases in our atmosphere. 95% of the greenhouse effect here on earth is caused by naturally-occurring water vapor in our atmosphere.
a heating of the earth is far from a rare occurrence when it comes to earth history. among the warmest eras in recorded history was about 1000 years ago where it was so warm that all the glaciers on the large island of Greenland had melted away and the Vikings were able to use the land for farming. dont tell me it was because they were driving their SUVs all over the place.
FACT: the Ordovician Period (438 to 505 Mya) of Earth's history was a great period of increased glaciation that had over 14 times as much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere than the present-day.
yet another huge problem with the people who think global warming is a real big problem is that they arent looking deep enough into the earth's past. they think that they can determine a lot from looking at 100-400 years of temperature changes. as for me, training to be a geologist, this is a huge NO NO. in the geologic community, most people wont even think about taking you seriously unless you were using data on timespans of tens or hundreds of thousands of years. 100-400 years of data doesnt really tell you anything about the planet's climate since its normal for it to fluctuate often. as you can see with this graph--->http://home.austarnet.com.au/yours/Vostok%20Ice%20Core%20Global%20Tempertatures.gif which has 400,000+ years of data put onto one graph, it is obvious that the earth's climate has a fairly regular basic pattern of growing hot and cold. for the earth to have climate fluctuations like this is NORMAL.
FACT: the eruption of St Helens in 1980 produced more greenhouse gases than humans have in the past 100 years.
we often forget the forces of nature that are much more powerful than us humans in terms of shaping the earth when they have controlled life itself on this planet for the last 3 billion years. wildfires and volcanic activity being the biggest two greenhouse gas producers on the planet. if anything, they are probably the worst polluters on the planet producing not just carbon dioxide, but sulfur dioxide, water vapor, nitrous oxide and methane, all of which are considered greenhouse gases. while they are less common, asteroids can produce similar effects on the climate.
FACT: at any given moment, there are 32 or more volcanoes erupting on planet Earth.
glaciers melting is a HUGE topic i come across all the time. for example, Glacier National Park having lost most of its glaciers in the past 30 years. most people would say that its because of global warming... but is it really? a recent study on the recent continental glacial melt i read in one of my science magazines talked about the effects of particulate matter on glaciers. with a scattering of dark particulates, such as dust, can actually make the ice melt faster since the dark color absorbs energy from the sun and heats up the surface, resulting in melting of the ice. in the case of many glaciers that are melting in Alaska, Canada and the northern part of the lower 48 states, higher and higher levels of coal particulates have been found. where did it come from? the answer is simple: it came here on the jet stream from industrial China. to save our glaciers, it isnt global warming we should be worrying about, but the overuse of dirty coal burning factories in Asia.
FACT: particulate matter in the atmosphere actually has a cooling effect on global climate since it blocks out the sun's rays. smoke from large fires can actually cause a 20 degree temperature drop locally.
so what causes global warming exactly? well, theres many different possibilities that scientists of many different disciplines have considered.
-solar cycles and activity
-greenhouse effect (caused mostly by increased amounts of water vapor in the atmosphere)
-changes in geography due to continental drift
-asteroid collisions and varying levels of volcanic activity
-magnetic pole reversals affecting weather patterns
-any combination of 2 or more of the above
FACT: global warming is a phenomena of the last 18,000 years, not since the Industrial Revolution.
global warming is a very complex scientific theory and to say that humans emitting carbon dioxide gas alone can heat up the earth is just plain nonsense. it is a completely natural occurrence caused by forces that humankind has no control over whatsoever. i also have yet to see any convincing scientific evidence for the idea that humans are causing global warming.
some interesting websites:
good easy-to-read site on global warming: mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html#anchor2108263
about the Carboniferous Period of Earth's history: mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/Carboniferous_climate.html
the MATH behind global warming: mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
scientists commenting on Al Gore's film: www.canadafreepress.com/2006/harris061206.htm
Internet Skeptic powerpoint download (select the second one down):
www.stopdumbingdown.com/index_files/Page496.htm
CO2 Science: www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/Index.jsp
quick fun facts:
Approximately 99.72% of the "greenhouse effect" is due to natural causes -- mostly water vapor and traces of other gases, which we can do nothing at all about. Eliminating human activity altogether would have little impact on climate change.
Of the 186 billion tons of CO2 that enter earth's atmosphere each year from all sources, only 6 billion tons are from human activity. Approximately 90 billion tons come from biologic activity in earth's oceans and another 90 billion tons from such sources as volcanoes and decaying land plants.
At 368 parts per million CO2 is a minor constituent of earth's atmosphere-- less than 4/100ths of 1% of all gases present. Compared to former geologic times, earth's current atmosphere is CO2- impoverished.
We are actually in an ice age climate today. However for the last 10,000 years or so we have enjoyed a warm but temporary interglacial vacation. We know from geological records like ocean sediments and ice cores from permanent glaciers that for at least the last 750,000 years interglacial periods happen at 100,000 year intervals, lasting about 15,000 to 20,000 years before returning to an icehouse climate. We are currently about 18,000 years into Earth's present interglacial cycle. These cycles have been occurring for at least the last 2-4 million years, although the Earth has been cooling gradually for the last 30 million years.
a favorite subject of mine as an earth science freak is global warming. its a huge deal these days. its in the news, the movies, your politicians' agendas...
most of the common, general public believes that the earth is heading towards some giant cataclysm because we have been using too much fossil fuels and putting carbon dioxide (one of many greenhouse gases) into the atmosphere. this, in turn, has been causing the earth to heat up. as a solution, the general public believes that since we have caused this grand catastrophe, we must try to stop it!
"If I am elected president in 2008, I will stop global warming!"
-Hillary Clinton
...
global warming is not a matter of science anymore, but a matter of overblown and overexaggerated political propaganda. ever seen the film "An Inconvenient Truth"? there are so many lies and misinterpretations in it to make anyone with knowledge in climatology and other weather-related fields to make them cry.
FACT: Al Gore failed most of his science classes in college, having to retake them because he was so bad with it.
another issue i have with this global warming thing (politically) is when environmentalists push for hydrogen-powered fuel cells for cars. this right here is proof that it isnt really global warming theyre worried about >_> the exhaust that would come from hydrogen powered fuel cells is water vapor.
FACT: water vapor is THE most potent of all the greenhouse gases in our atmosphere. 95% of the greenhouse effect here on earth is caused by naturally-occurring water vapor in our atmosphere.
a heating of the earth is far from a rare occurrence when it comes to earth history. among the warmest eras in recorded history was about 1000 years ago where it was so warm that all the glaciers on the large island of Greenland had melted away and the Vikings were able to use the land for farming. dont tell me it was because they were driving their SUVs all over the place.
FACT: the Ordovician Period (438 to 505 Mya) of Earth's history was a great period of increased glaciation that had over 14 times as much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere than the present-day.
yet another huge problem with the people who think global warming is a real big problem is that they arent looking deep enough into the earth's past. they think that they can determine a lot from looking at 100-400 years of temperature changes. as for me, training to be a geologist, this is a huge NO NO. in the geologic community, most people wont even think about taking you seriously unless you were using data on timespans of tens or hundreds of thousands of years. 100-400 years of data doesnt really tell you anything about the planet's climate since its normal for it to fluctuate often. as you can see with this graph--->http://home.austarnet.com.au/yours/Vostok%20Ice%20Core%20Global%20Tempertatures.gif which has 400,000+ years of data put onto one graph, it is obvious that the earth's climate has a fairly regular basic pattern of growing hot and cold. for the earth to have climate fluctuations like this is NORMAL.
FACT: the eruption of St Helens in 1980 produced more greenhouse gases than humans have in the past 100 years.
we often forget the forces of nature that are much more powerful than us humans in terms of shaping the earth when they have controlled life itself on this planet for the last 3 billion years. wildfires and volcanic activity being the biggest two greenhouse gas producers on the planet. if anything, they are probably the worst polluters on the planet producing not just carbon dioxide, but sulfur dioxide, water vapor, nitrous oxide and methane, all of which are considered greenhouse gases. while they are less common, asteroids can produce similar effects on the climate.
FACT: at any given moment, there are 32 or more volcanoes erupting on planet Earth.
glaciers melting is a HUGE topic i come across all the time. for example, Glacier National Park having lost most of its glaciers in the past 30 years. most people would say that its because of global warming... but is it really? a recent study on the recent continental glacial melt i read in one of my science magazines talked about the effects of particulate matter on glaciers. with a scattering of dark particulates, such as dust, can actually make the ice melt faster since the dark color absorbs energy from the sun and heats up the surface, resulting in melting of the ice. in the case of many glaciers that are melting in Alaska, Canada and the northern part of the lower 48 states, higher and higher levels of coal particulates have been found. where did it come from? the answer is simple: it came here on the jet stream from industrial China. to save our glaciers, it isnt global warming we should be worrying about, but the overuse of dirty coal burning factories in Asia.
FACT: particulate matter in the atmosphere actually has a cooling effect on global climate since it blocks out the sun's rays. smoke from large fires can actually cause a 20 degree temperature drop locally.
so what causes global warming exactly? well, theres many different possibilities that scientists of many different disciplines have considered.
-solar cycles and activity
-greenhouse effect (caused mostly by increased amounts of water vapor in the atmosphere)
-changes in geography due to continental drift
-asteroid collisions and varying levels of volcanic activity
-magnetic pole reversals affecting weather patterns
-any combination of 2 or more of the above
FACT: global warming is a phenomena of the last 18,000 years, not since the Industrial Revolution.
global warming is a very complex scientific theory and to say that humans emitting carbon dioxide gas alone can heat up the earth is just plain nonsense. it is a completely natural occurrence caused by forces that humankind has no control over whatsoever. i also have yet to see any convincing scientific evidence for the idea that humans are causing global warming.
some interesting websites:
good easy-to-read site on global warming: mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html#anchor2108263
about the Carboniferous Period of Earth's history: mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/Carboniferous_climate.html
the MATH behind global warming: mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
scientists commenting on Al Gore's film: www.canadafreepress.com/2006/harris061206.htm
Internet Skeptic powerpoint download (select the second one down):
www.stopdumbingdown.com/index_files/Page496.htm
CO2 Science: www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/Index.jsp
quick fun facts:
Approximately 99.72% of the "greenhouse effect" is due to natural causes -- mostly water vapor and traces of other gases, which we can do nothing at all about. Eliminating human activity altogether would have little impact on climate change.
Of the 186 billion tons of CO2 that enter earth's atmosphere each year from all sources, only 6 billion tons are from human activity. Approximately 90 billion tons come from biologic activity in earth's oceans and another 90 billion tons from such sources as volcanoes and decaying land plants.
At 368 parts per million CO2 is a minor constituent of earth's atmosphere-- less than 4/100ths of 1% of all gases present. Compared to former geologic times, earth's current atmosphere is CO2- impoverished.
We are actually in an ice age climate today. However for the last 10,000 years or so we have enjoyed a warm but temporary interglacial vacation. We know from geological records like ocean sediments and ice cores from permanent glaciers that for at least the last 750,000 years interglacial periods happen at 100,000 year intervals, lasting about 15,000 to 20,000 years before returning to an icehouse climate. We are currently about 18,000 years into Earth's present interglacial cycle. These cycles have been occurring for at least the last 2-4 million years, although the Earth has been cooling gradually for the last 30 million years.